Presenter: Welcome back to The Real Issue, a reality podcast hosted by the Guardian and the BBC. Tonight we have a timely debate about events unfolding in the Middle East. Joining us are Oliver Hobbitsworth, founder and host of Vegan Glenns Media, Connor Stipend, Managing Editor of Iron Curtain Books, and Godfrey Quadrant, Emeritus Professor of History and Geopolitics at the University of West Thumblenorton. We apologise that there are no women joining us tonight — they went shopping, apparently. Now, over to you, our guests. My question for this evening is a simple one. Who are you rooting for in this war? Oliver, perhaps you could go first.
Oliver: Gladly. Look, it’s very simple. The majority of this country know that what is going on in Gaza is an atrocity and an abomination. The leaders of our country should know that they have the blood of every maimed Gazan man, woman, and child on their hands, and we should immediately declare a national day of mourning for the dead. I would also like to see the British navy establishing a direct maritime route for refugees to enter Britain, which should be funded by an immediate windfall tax on corporations and any household in a major city not currently flying a Palestinian flag.
Presenter: Thanks Oliver, just a reminder that we didn’t come here tonight to score political points. Now, what about you, Mr Sti —
Oliver: Just a moment, I’m not done. I find it disgraceful that you can accuse me of scoring political points, at a time when right at this moment, bombs are going off in Gaza, children are crying and starving, while we sit here talking as if everything is ok. There is a war happening outside!
Presenter: Thanks. Now, Mr Stipend, what’s your take?
Connor: Well, I think if Mr Hobbitsworth cares so passionately for the Palestinian cause, he should be very welcome to go and join Hamas in their tunnels. I’ll even pay for his ticket. Now, to less pressing matters. I think it’s very important to begin from first principles, and examine where the modern left is going wrong, and why they’ve made themselves such useful idiots for terrorist organisations like Hamas.
Oliver: Excuse me? You’re a useful idiot for the Zionist war machine. Shame on you. I’m going to walk out.
Presenter: Please don’t.
Oliver: I won’t.
Connor: If I may. The assumption of many like Oliver here is that the world is filled with liberal, hummus loving, rainbow colored humanists, and that the only object in the way of this peaceful flourishing of peoples is capitalism. The West is capitalist, Israel is capitalist, and thus implicitly guilty in everything that happens against them. Hamas, like the Gazans, like Iran, like ISIS, is comprised of victims of capitalism, and is thus justified in any act of rebellion, vengeance or downright murder that they undertake against the evil tyrants lording over them. Any act of barbarity, medieval brutalism, vicious cruelty, is immediately justified.
Oliver: You are promoting genocide. Shame on you. Far right, Islamophobic- sympathising, dogwhistling vitriol.
Connor: I take a different view. For all your whining about far right, I expect you know very little about right wing thought. I suspect you are little aware that many on the far right are intense admirers of Islam. They view it as a successful project of extreme authoritarian conservatism, bringing spiritual, political, social and ethical life under one authority and rule. These people are not gays and trannies. They are deeply religious and committed to a multigenerational, multiethnic civilisational project. Unfortunately, this project is completely incompatible with our Western tradition of Art, Science, Religion and Philosophy, derived from Greek and Roman paganism as much as from Judaeo-Christian scripture.
Oliver: You are literally nazi scum. Muslims contribute more to British national life than you have ever done.
Connor: Sadly, under today’s conditions, this may be true.
Presenter: Hang on. Are you saying that Muslims and Brits cannot live together?
Connor: Clearly we are. The question is how long this remains tenable.
Oliver: And what exactly is your solution here, Mr Stipend?
Connor: An iron curtain. A two-tiered society. Zero contact.
Presenter: Are there not liberal Muslims? Could we not hope for some kind of Muslim Reformation?
Connor: Ah yes. Teach the Umma to accept they/them pronouns. You are a good Christian missionary, aren’t you?
Presenter: I believe in the Western way of life. We are tolerant, and democratic, and I must say I find your suggestion of a zero-contact society to be rather out of keeping with good old fashioned British mores and fairplay. It’s simply not cricket. I went sailing with a Muslim once.
Oliver: Absolutely. For all these fascists harp on about Britain and nation, they want to destroy centuries of legal and parliamentary procedure to live out their sick racist fantasies.
Presenter: Mr Stipend, is this true?
Connor: I would prefer to do it inside of parliament.
Presenter: Didn’t you just say a moment ago that people of your persuasion deeply admire Islam?
Connor: We do indeed. I suppose it’s a sort of jealousy. A rivalry. Who will win. People think the future clash is between America and China. I believe it is between Europe and Islam. Right now, morally, they have the upper hand.
Oliver: If you admire them so much, why don’t you move over there?
Connor: Over where?
Oliver: Over there!
Connor: “Over there” indeed. I ponder it sometimes. I’m sick of all the gender nonsense.
Oliver: I bet you watch gay porn.
Connor: How dare you. I am a vitalist, opposed to any forms of liberal decadence and perversity. Sex is a force for building cathedrals and breeding children. Not hedonistic vice squandering the inheritance of our race.
Oliver: Twink or bear?
Connor: Excuse me?
Oliver: Bet you're a twink.
Connor: *stutters*
Oliver: Not very Greek of you.
Presenter: I would like to hear from Professor Quadrant.
Oliver: Sure.
Presenter: Professor Quadrant?
Quadrant: Well, as a black man living in modern Britain, I think the important thing to consider in this situation is that they are Jewish.
Presenter: Who are?
Quadrant: The Jews.
Presenter: Wise words indeed. This has been The Real Issue, presented by the BBC and the Guardian. Thank you and goodnight.